Comments on the J-L24 aspects of Grugni et al (2012)

Some highlights, links, and comments of the haplogroup J-L24(M530) aspects of the Grugni et al (2012) paper are given below.

The Grugni paper found that L24(M530) occurred at a frequency of 10.00% out of 130 random samples in Konya, Turkey. These are probably Z387 (DYS445=6) haplotypes.  We don't know at this time. I have communicated with Dr. Grugni and Professor Semino regarding SNPs we have found within L24 and Dr. Grugni has agreed to test L25, Z387, and L70 on her datasets. Tests are underway at this time. The variance of the Konya, Turkey haplotypes is moderate at 0.326. Variance is a mathematical procedure that is used to test the simularity of the haplotypes. If the variance is 0.0 then the haplotypes are identical. As the variance increases the haplotypes become increasingly different (there is no limit). Variance is also used to estimate the age of a group of haplotypes. The Grugni paper provides calibrated age estimates in their Table S7. Age of microsatellite variation and Standard Error within the main haplogroups.

The Grugni paper found that L24(M530) occurred at a frequency of 12.20% out of 41 random samples from Lebanon. The variance was however lower at 0.200. The high frequency in Lebanon is interesting and it lends support to the Phoenicians as providing early movement of L24(M530) haplotypes westward into the Mediterranean Sea Countries as well as the coast of Spain and Portugal, the British Isles, and possibly even Ireland.

The Grugni paper found that L24(M530) occurred at a frequency of 12.24% in the Hormozgan Province of Iran. The variance was moderate though at 0.333 in this southwestern corner of Iran. Hormozgan Province is important to J-L24(M530) because it stands as a gateway from the Gulf of Oman, Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean, into the Persian Gulf. Perhaps it is through Hormozgan that today we find J-L24(M530) Y-chromosomes in Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates, Oman, and of course Saudi Arabia. Most important is the maritime port city at Bandar Abbas.  Perhaps Bandar Abbas is the link to J-L24(M530) Y-chromosomes we find today in Kerala, India? Bandar Abbas was an active maritime port city even during the reign of Darius the Great (586 and 522 BCE). Marco Polo visited Bandar Abbas in 1272 and 1293 and reported widespread trading activities. European colonialists landed in the region in 1497 for the first time headed by Portuguese explorer Vasco da Gama. The Portuguese controlled the area for a while but then the trading empires of the Dutch and English East India Trading companies took over. These various contacts with European nations and trading companies were no doubt conduits for movements of some J-L24(M530) haplotypes.

The highest L24(M530) frequency observed, anywhere in the world, was for Zoroastrians in the city of Yazd, Iran. The frequency was 17.5% out of a random sample of 80. The Persians of Yazd also showed an L24(M530) frequency of 17.5%. Zoroastrians of Tehran showed an L24(M530) frequency of 15.4%.  Other areas of Iran showed high frequencies as well, higher than found anywhere else in the extensive set of countries studied in the paper. It seems clear that Zoroastrians and Persians are important groups in our ancient L24(M530) paternal ancestry.

Iran then is our most ancient paternal homeland, but can one point to a specific area within Iran as the origin of L24(M530)?  Yes, it is possible from the variance. The place of highest variance, highest diversity of haplotypes, is likely the place of origin of L24(M530). Our L24(M530) origin appears to be with the people occupying the Mazandaran Province of Iran where the variance was found to be 0.730. Indigenous peoples include the Mazanderani who occupy the southern coastal plains of the Caspian Sea and the near by Alborz mountains. A closely related ethnic group are the Gilakis. The Gilaki are found in Mazandaran province and also in the Gilan Province just west of Mazandaran Province. These people are the oldest members of L24(M530) and I wonder how many will be found to carry the L25 SNP which is immediately downstream of L24(M530). So far in our FTDNA J-L24-Y-DNA Project we have found only two confirmed haplotypes who are L24+ and L25-. The second highest variance (0.651) was found among Persians/Zoroastrians of Yazd and Fars Provinces. The Mazanderanis people and the Persians are no doubt paternally related. I look forward to seeing Dr. Grugni's L25 test results. Perhaps we will find some cases being L24+ and L25-.

Outside of Iran I have already indicated the relatively high frequencies of L24(M530) found in Turkey and Lebanon, and there are several other countries worthy of comment. The first that stands out is Italy where L24(M530) is observed throughout. In fact the highest frequency of L24(M530) is 6.98% out of a random sample of 86 people in Apulia, which is higher than all places tested in Turkey except for Konya, Turkey. In fact Apulia, Italy shows the 3rd highest variance (0.552) observed in this study of L24(M530). This is remarkable because this degree of variance indicates and ancient age of the haplotypes in Apulia. In fact the Grugni paper indicates the Apulia L24(M530) haplotypes have an age going back 19500+/-5200 years ago (Table S7). The error is large at +/-5200 years but still even the minimum age is quite old for these L24(M530) haplotypes in Apulia. The 19.5+/-5.2 thousand years ago age indicates the Upper Palaeolithic (Late Stone Age). The Neolithic period begins about 8000 years ago. The Neolithic makes more sense to me because when I look at Apulia using Google Earth I see an area rich in farming. An explanation to this puzzle could be that L24(M530) Neolithic farmers moved into Apulia in more recent times, less that about 8000 years ago, but they just happened to have diverse haplotypes which we see today. It is not necessarily true that L24(M530) has been in Apulia for 19.5+/-5.2 thousand years (since the Upper Palaeolithic). Here is a brief summary of Prehistoric Italy. In fact when I check the published 9 marker haplotypes (6 out 86 random samples in Apulia are L24(M530)) 3 of them (50%) are very clear J-L70 haplotypes and J-L70 appears to have it's origin in Southern Turkey or Northern Syria about 3000 to 4000 years ago (my own estimate). Another sample is clearly L25 and may be L254 or L243. The remaining two haplotypes are unusual and I cannot resolve their position under L24 with just 9 markers tested. In any event it appears to me that L24(M530) in Apulia is more Neolithic or even Bronze Age than Upper Paleolithic.

Another country of interest is Israel. In Israel 7.32% out of a random sample of 82 Ashkenazi Jews were found to be L24(M530) and 4.65% out of a random sample of 43 Sephardi Jews were found L24(M530). This is in agreement with our own J-L24-Y-DNA Project where we see evidence of Jews throughout the subclades of L25. A notable Jewish subclade of L25 is L254. Also Jewish clusters and subclades are found within subclades L243 and L70. It will be interesting to learn the history of these various Jewish clusters and subclades of L25 and to see how they may or may not be connected.

Iraq is curious due to the low percentages of L24(M530) found there. Not one L24(M530) was found in 143 random samples of the Marsh Arabs of Iraq and only 2 L25(M530) were found in 154 (1.30%) random samples from Baghdad. This seems odd because Iran shares a good part of it's western border with Iraq. Perhaps L24(M530) haplotypes moved through the most northern parts of Iraq (Kirkuk, Erbil, Mosul)? It would be interesting to test L24(M530) in these northernmost areas of Iraq, and also the northern area of Iran at Urmia and Tabriz.

Poland is also interesting because no L24(M530)'s were found in a random sample of 99 people in Poland. This seems odd too because in our J-L24-Y-DNA Project we have 22 L24(M530) cases with ancestry from Poland (a number with Jewish ancestry). It could be that having ancestry from Poland and actually living in Poland are two different things? It could be with the overwhelming numbers of Y-DNA haplogroups I and R in Poland that L24(M530) is indeed difficult to detect? Also a factor could be the connection of L24(M530) with the Jewish people. The Holocaust was certainly a factor and the subsequent movement of Jews out of Poland another factor.

Spain is another country showing 0.00% of L24(M530) in this Iran study by Grugni et al (2012).  No cases of L24(M530) were detected in 93 random samples from Andalusia, 55 random Basque samples, and 29 random Catalan samples. Not one L24(M530) out of 177 total random samples tested. This is remarkable, because here I am an L24(M530) person with paternal ancestry from Basque Country (Spain). Perhaps L24(M530)'s left Iberia after 1492 CE and made their way to the New World and today their descendants are found in the America's! I suspect if Dr. Grugni and her colleagues were to test random samples from Veracruz and Puebla Mexico that they would be surprised to find L24(M530) in sufficient numbers, probably yielding a good idea of the L24(M530) frequency in Iberia before 1492. It would be an interesting experiment anyway. It would not fail I think, because today in the J-L24-Y-DNA Project there are 25 L24(M530)'s, out of 384 members (6.5%), with paternal ancestry from Iberia. They are Hispanics with more recent ancestry from Mexico, Central and South America.

Currently I am entering the Grugni et al (2012) 9 marker L24(M530) haplotypes into my J2 database and I will try to find matching subclades and clusters for them. I'll report on this later.

Two additional reviews of the Grugni et al (2012) paper can be found here:
Dienekes Anthropology Blog,
Haplogroup J2 (M172) Blog.