I'm posting above the current J-L24 Y-DNA phylogenetic tree. It is quite different than the one I posted in December 2012! Just click anywhere on the chart for the full view. The chart was provided by Ludmila Ryabchenko, sponsor of FTDNA kit 171488 (Nickolay Ryabchenko). A clearer view of the chart can be found HERE.
What is new is the two large J-L25 branches(clades) defined by SNPs PF4888/PF5401 and F3133. They parallel our other major, in fact largest, J-L25 branch defined by the Z387 SNP (encompassing our DYS445=6 haplotypes). We suspect that most all members, subclusters, and subclades of J-L25(J2a4h2) will fall under the PF4888/PF5401, F3133, and Z387 branches of J-L25. This is a big step forward in our understanding of the J-L25 genetic tree. Currently, as seen in the J-L24 phylogenetic tree, PF4888/PF5401 unites the L243 clade with a new clade called PF5366/PF5368. In turn PF5366/PF5368 unites my own L229/L230/L264 clade with the L254/F659 clade. The L254/F659 clade also unites two other clades called M365.2 and CTS1489. Clearly we need additional testing of the PF4888/PF5401 clade in order to learn more about its genetic structure. We need at least one member of each of the L243 clusters (L243-alpha through L243-eta) to test (Geno 2.0 preferably with the possibility of finding new SNPs, but in the future FTDNA will offer individual SNPs for testing too). The L243 clusters can be seen in our FTDNA J-L24-Y-DNA Project Y-DNA Results section. The L243 clusters are numbered 02111 through 02117 (forest(dark) green clusters). We also need the many members of the L254 clade to test so that we can see how many are derived for the new F659 and CTS1489 SNPs.
A characteristic of the PF4888/PF5401 clade, first noted by David Dugas, is YCAII=19-23. It appears, so far, that all members of PF4888/PF5401 have YCAII=19-23. This stands out from the ancestral state which is YCAII=19-22 found both in the F3133 and Z387 clades. This doesn't mean the PF4888/PF5401 clade is younger than the F3133 and Z387 clades. It just means that YCAII=19-23 happened early when PF4888/PF5401 was founded, while it did not happen in F3133 or Z387. In any event one can scroll through the J-L24-Y-DNA Projects Y-DNA Results section, observe YCAII, and see who might be PF4888/PF5401 via YCAII=19-23. One sees that the Cohen cluster (0214) and the Saudi-alpha cluster (0215) are likely also PF4888/PF5401 (but not tested yet). It would be good to see several members of the Cohen (0214) cluster take the Geno 2.0 test, hopefully we will find a SNP for this Jewish cluster that is L254-. The PF4888/PF5401 clade appears to have a European flavor and a significant Jewish component, but with lighter links to Lebanon and the Middle East. This may just be due to a lack of sufficient genetic testing from the area of the Levant (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Palestine, Israel, Cyprus, and Southern Turkey). Kamel Al Gazzah indicated that PF4888/PF5401 has an Ashkenazi component while F3133 a Sephardi component. However, interestingly, we observe that the Z387 clade has both Ashkenazi and Sephardi components.
F3133 appears to have more of a Middle Eastern flavor and a lighter European component. We will see how this pans out as more and more of our members test with Geno 2.0 or through FTDNA. Currently we have found that J-L192.2 shares F3133 with a new clade called F761. F761 currently includes the Ducas (L231) and Ward (L317) clades. Looking at YCAII=19-22 it appears that the Mughal-Timurid, Curtin, Al-Ahsaa, Najd, and Syrian-Anatolian clusters may also be F3133 and possibly F761. Again, it would be most helpful if at least one member of each of these clusters would take the Geno 2.0 test.
I'm looking forward to more Geno 2.0 results in the near future!
4 comments:
Hi, I am very interested in your blog. I just received my results from national geographic. My haplogroup is L25 and then J-F3133, this is all very confusing. My recent family history is my great grandfather lived in the city of Madinah in Saudi Arabia. Could you give me a reference to read about where our haplogroup began and how long ago was this? The L25 on the NG website say 18,000 years, is there nothing more recent? I think this is very interesting, but a little confusing. Also on different websites they use different letters I don't even see L25 or J-F3133. Is anyone here also J-F3133? And where are you from recently? How long ago did we share an ancestor? Glad to follow this blog very exciting!
Hello
F3133 is very common the Middle east and has some known sub groups such as F761 and L192.
If you tested with Geno 20.0 only, I suggest that you test STR markers with Family Tree and join the J2-Middle east project which I admin
at this link www.familytreedna.com/public/j2-arab
You can alos the join the DNAJ2 forum at http://www.dnaj2.com/vb/
I am J2 M172 per 23&me; I am preparing to order the L24, L25, F3133, and L192 via FTDNA- I am already a member of the J2 Middle Eastern and the L24 projects and have been grouped among the Syrian Anatolians. If I am positive for these SNP's I will take the Geno 2.0 test.
It was suggested that I test for Z7704, but I can not find this in the Haplogroup SNP section of MyFTDNA.
Any other SNP I should test for?
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